God told Israel through the prophet, Joel, "It will come about after this that I will pour out My Spirit on all mankind; and your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions" (Joel 2:28). Cessationists (those who believe that all sign gifts have finished with the Apostles and Scripture) will tell you that this promise was fulfilled in Acts 2, that God no longer pours out His Spirit on all mankind like that. Dreams and prophecy and tongues ... well, all the sign gifts ... are done and over. Then we saw "through a glass darkly," but now we see "face to face" (1 Cor 13:12) now that we have the Scriptures. Tongues have ceased (1 Cor 13:8) along with all the other gifts that were intended as "signs" -- proofs of God's presence and input. There are big names in this "Cessationist" category. Most notably would be John MacArthur (and his "Strange Fire" conference). Others include A.W. Tozer, and, oh, by the way, the likes of John Calvin and Charles Spurgeon, just to name a few. So it's not a "crazy few."
What's the issue here? What's the big deal? Well, there is a problem. If God is still speaking to individuals as He did when He breathed out the Scriptures (2 Tim 3:16-17), then we have a problem. The canon is not closed. In fact, Scripture is contradictory. If God is still speaking in that sense, then the Scripture is not "adequate" and does not equip us for "every good work." That's an ongoing effort, wherein God is always offering addendums and corrections. So the guy that says, "God gave me a word for you" and then expects you to obey it because it's "a word from God" is overstepping. The woman who says, "God told me something that contradicts Scripture and we need to correct it" (perhaps not in those terms, but undeniably the case) is not from God. Further, if signs (healing, tongues, prophecy, etc.) are still required as "proof" (e.g., Mark 16:20; John 2:11, 18, 23), then the Bible is not "adequate" and we have a problem -- Scripture is wrong.
Here's the thing. I think that the texts used to "prove" that all these gifts are gone are inadequate to the task. For instance, all that Paul wrote on tongues becomes moot ... soon after he wrote on tongues. James commanded us to "pray for one another so that you may be healed" (James 5:18) ... and was wrong soon after he wrote it. I absolutely agree that God does not contravene or contradict His own Word and I certainly agree that Scripture is adequate, but does that require that God no longer speak? Does that mean that God cannot visit someone in a vision or dream and tell them something specific -- not in contradiction to Scripture and not in authority over others -- for them? Does that mean God has gone silent and left us to our own devices not only to figure out His Word, but which job to choose, who to marry, how to vote ... hundreds of everyday questions without explicit answers in Scripture? I think that the signs are done. Agreed. And I've never experienced healings or tongues or the like. Sure. But, given the slim "biblical proof" that they've all vanished and the vast space between violating Scripture and intervening in my personal life in view of God's own might and wisdom, I'm hard-pressed to conclude He cannot do those things anymore. Especially given the scope of Joel 2. So I can't run in charismatic or Pentecostal circles. I think they're overreaching. But I can't seem to settle in the Cessationist camp either. I won't contradict Scripture ... in either direction (e.g. 1 Cor 12:31; 1 Cor 14:1, 39). So ... here I stand ...
12 comments:
For me, it comes down to a very narrow definition of miracles that have ceased. Miracles that were sent to prove the source of the words of the speaker was God have ceased because the Scriptures are closed. We are no longer receiving new, universal teaching from God, that ended with the Apostles. I believe the performance of miracles has ceased. But if God gives us a word of encouragement or warning for another believer, that would be miraculous, but doesn't fall under the narrow category, or if you're praying for the healing of a sick brother and he's recovers and the doctors don't know why, that's a miracle, but not part of my category. I have not limited God from being able to do miraculous things, but He has clearly limited His powerful gifting of clearly miraculous people. So when Peter tells the church to pray for healing, that's different that Peter going out and healing.
So you would say that the gifts of, say, healing or tongues or prophecy are all over, but healing, tongues, or prophecy are possible, just not at gifts?
I might be wrong, but it seems that this post might be a continuation of our conversation of Aug. 16, which I believe had morphed at the end of it to touch upon (1) how God speaks to His children in these days; and (2) how His children can know His will for their lives. Today, you included the “sign gifts” in your discussion, but I’d like to focus on your idea of “a vision from God.” You wrote today: “Does that mean that God cannot visit someone in a vision or dream and tell them something specific…for them?” Can you please elaborate on this a bit? Specifically, how would God look physically when He appears in a vision or a dream? Does He have a physical (human-like?) form in such a case, or would He appear, perhaps, as a swirling cloud of smoke or a burning bush, in the form of an angel, etc.? How does one visualize God--a Spirit without a body--in a vision or dream without creating a likeness that one could “see”? or is there only His voice? How would you know it was God appearing or talking to you?
When my boys were young, they memorized verses like in AWANA. I explained to them at the time that memorizing verses gave God a vocabulary to communicate with them. What would He look like when He does? I don't know. I don't know what Jesus (God, the Son) looked like, but He was physically present. A visit from God wouldn't require a physical presence or a particular appearance -- a burning bush for Moses and an "angel of the Lord" for Daniel. But what He says is always in accord with His character and His Word (most of all His Word). If that were to happen, that's how I'd know. (I'm not even suggesting it does anymore.)
I've definitely had some experiences, that I don't think can be explained other than by YHWH intervening in a miraculous way. So, I would agree that not all miracles have ceased. I would also agree that the need for the types of sign miracles that occurred in the during Jesus' and the apostles ministries ended with the closing of the canon. I absolutely would agree that YHWH does speak to individuals and does engage in miracles, but that those revelations won't contradict scripture or aren't binding on others.
For the most part, yes. In places where, say, there is no written language, sign gifts could be applicable to prove the words are from God, maybe. As specific gifts for proving the speaker is sent by God, revealing new revelation, those are gone because revelation is closed. I am dubious that there are people going about and healing by their word in the power of Christ like the Apostles did.
I suppose we will all have different convictions about a topic like this, no doubt based on our past experiences--in my case, coming out of a religious practice that promoted apparitions of “Mary” to children in Fatima, Portugal, “weeping” and “bleeding” statues, “stigmata,” and other blatant idolatrous “signs and wonders.” I am also mindful that most (all?) of the cults (and even religions like Islam) were begun by individuals (both male and female) who claimed to have had a “visit from God.” Even if the revelation those individuals shared with others following such a visit was not initially patently contrary to “His character and His Word,” as you say, it soon morphed to be so, of course. (And immature Christians might not even recognize if any such messages were unbiblical or not.) Therefore, I hold tightly to the teaching of Heb. 1:1-2 and do not expect physical appearances of God “in these last days” (and when Jesus returns to the earth, it will be as He left, i.e. on a cloud [Matt. 24:30, Act 1:11, Rev. 1:7, etc.] and not in a vision to me personally).
Rather than through personal visits, I fully expect that God will communicate with and lead me through His indwelling Spirit, through the renewing of my mind through His Word. (Your thoughts above about a “visit from God” with no physical presence or appearance seem to concur with this.) Personally, I do not require “visits from God” and would not know how to differentiate one from, say, a smooth-talking demon, a psychotic episode, or a hallucination (or even indigestion [a la Ebenezer Scrooge] :). God’s written Word includes all that I need in order to know His full will for me as His follower--His “revealed will” and the instructions and principles upon which to pursue other matters such as “whom to marry,” “which job to take,” “where to live,” etc. (which, for those living within God’s revealed will, will come down to mere personal preferences a lot more than most believers seem to realize). I do believe that God “speaks” to me (inaudibly) as I ponder or pray about things, calling to my mind verses or principles of truth found in His Word and leading me to make reasonable and appropriate applications of them for the issue at hand.
I will share my thoughts regarding the “sign gifts” (for what they are worth):
“Tongues” were for a special time, when Gospel truth needed to be disseminated quickly across a myriad of languages and cultures; now we have access to God’s Word in our own language. 1 Cor. 14:9 (“So likewise you, unless you utter by the tongue words easy to understand, how will it be known what is spoken? For you will be speaking into the air.”) shows a preference for relating Gospel truth through clear communication for the hearers (as opposed to, say, Catholic “mass” performed in Latin).
Countless “prophecies,” “dreams,” and “visions” are recorded in the Bible, and fulfillment and interpretation of them will be ongoing hereon in.
Jesus healed and raised the deceased as part of His earthly mission, and God continues His ever-present “healings” through the natural (or supernatural) processes of the human body (as He designed them to function) and through natural (or manufactured) pharmaceutical/medicinal entities, surgeries, etc., carried out by humans; death is still inevitable, of course, as the wages of sin. People no longer heal others supernaturally (i.e. “laying on of hands,” etc.), but we should always pray for God's healing; the apostles were granted special gifts of healing during the establishment of the Church (as signs of their validity). If so-called faith-healers were legitimate, there would be no sickness or death around now.
“Miracles” is a more general term for various supernatural works of God that I think occur constantly--some to our knowledge and awareness but most without them.
I just taught on Hebrews for a couple months, so I'm familiar with that one, too. You understand it to say that God does not speak anymore. I understand it to say that our best representation of God is in Christ. After all, the New Testament ("God-breathed") was written after Christ.
To be clear, however, I am not a cessationist -- sign gifts (and visions) are gone -- but I've never seen any of it. I don't hold that speaking in tongues can't happen but I've never seen it happen following biblical guidelines. I don't hold that prophecy (and especially prophecy as "forth-telling") is gone, but I've never experienced the "prophetic word" offered by some as a real thing. I do "earnestly desire the greater gifts" (1 Cor 12:31); I'm just not holding my breath ... and I pursue a "more excellent way." Given the long, biblical history of God visiting people in dreams and visions, I would be hard-pressed to argue it can't happen. I'm just very skeptical of every claim of it I hear.
Just to clarify: I would not say I “understand [Heb. 1:1-2] to say that God does not speak anymore.” I understand it to say that God “has spoken to us in His Son,” i.e. through Christ’s words and deeds as recorded in the New Testament. (Full disclosure: my verse-by-verse study through Hebrews was with John MacArthur’s study guide.) I don’t believe that God “visits us” in person, since we are already indwelled by His Spirit. I am certain that tongues can and does occur; I would say it’s not in great need (nor at all effective without an interpreter) now that we have written/printed Bibles and teachers to teach the Word.
It’s interesting that you say you don’t think the sign gifts are gone, but you’ve never seen any of it and seem skeptical of it all; I would say that is for good reason!
I have experienced a vision from God, so I believe those still happen. What I reject are any visions from God that are of new revelation for all Christians.
One last comment from me (sorry!):
While I have formed some strong opinions about these things, I did not mean to come across as completely unbending on the whole topic. I am fully adamant about this: God is God and does as He wishes; all things are possible with Him; He can’t be “put in a box.” I’m essentially only a witness--constantly watching and learning and always happy to be surprised by God.
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