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Saturday, March 31, 2012

Heartbreaking Relationships

The topic of divorce in Christian circles is hotly debated. There are those who say, "There is no biblical reason for divorce." These are, necessarily, in an extreme minority. There are others who say, "God allows divorce for sexual immorality and desertion ... and that's it." Of course, then the whole definitions of "sexual immorality" and "desertion" come into question. Is it "sexual immorality" if the husband looked at another woman? "Well, Jesus called that adultery!" Is it "desertion" if it's emotional separation? "Well, he's still here, but I feel deserted." And there are even more who say, "God doesn't want you to be miserable, so if you're in a marriage that makes you miserable, God would allow you to divorce." That "miserable" could be from anything from abuse to neglect to "I can't stand the way he squeezes the toothpaste."

On one hand, examining the question from the input of Scripture gives a particular view. On the other hand, examining the question from those in the midst of the fray gives a different view. Russell Moore writes to a questioner who asks, "Should I divorce if I’m miserable?" And, of course, the question gets more questionable in the comments. You see, it is heartbreaking to hear of the pain some people are in. So, here's the question. Do we maintain a biblical view or do we subjugate the biblical view to the personal view? And if we maintain a biblical view, how do we do so in the face of such pain and heartbreak from people about whom we care deeply?

12 comments:

Marshal Art said...

As with many things, this is a situation of a bed having already been made. Too many enter into marriage when they shouldn't and then the relationship breaks down, as it might have been predicted it would. But, if we cannot get both parties to do their duties to maintain the vows they each took, which is really a contract each takes with God rather than each other, then the counsel must be to separate in the kindest and most unselfish manner possible and be more careful about entering into such an arrangement in the future. I mean, what else is there?

Stan said...

To me, counseling a Christian to "separate in the kindest and most unselfish manner possible" when such separation violates what Scripture says about marriage and divorce is neither loving nor wise.

Marshal Art said...

Note that I said to do so only when we cannot get both parties to do their duties to maintain their vows. That should have suggested that separation was going to happen, so to counsel kindness and unselfishness seems all that is left to us. My first and primary suggestion is to put aside personal animosities and injuries and work it out BECAUSE of the vows taken. So, if separation is to happen, should we not offer any counsel at all?

Stan said...

When my daughter was a teenager, she argued that the schools should give out free condoms. "The kids are going to do it anyway, so we ought to make it safe." "Let's see if I can follow that logic through. Heroin addicts are going to do it anyway, so we ought to make it safe and give them clean needles." "Right!" "And gang bangers are going to drive by shootings anyway, so we ought to give them classes on how to shoot accurately from moving cars so innocent victims don't get hurt." "Right! Oh, wait ..."

Obviously, to you it is wise to counsel people who are going to sin to do so carefully. To me it is never a good idea to encourage careful sin. Just a difference between us.

Stan said...

And I'll point out that your approach ("If they're going to separate in sin, we should encourage them to do it nicely") means that you don't have my problem. I cannot encourage people to sin "wisely", but I feel the pain of the situation that makes them want to do so. You can encourage them to extricate themselves "with kindness" and I don't have that option.

Marshal Art said...

So you are saying that you would withhold any advice whatsoever because their separation is sinful? I'm not forsaking my position simply because I accept that I have been unable to change their minds about separating. All I'm doing is moving on to what is now outside that preference of mine (their continued marriage) to suggest that they separate amicably and not compound their sin with vindictiveness and animosity. In other words, it's bad enough that they are breaking their vows to remain together no matter what. There's no reason they have to be hurtful and selfish on top of it.

It's akin to failing to talk someone out of stealing. OK. I've failed in that regard. My next best hope is that he steals without killing anyone.

I don't believe anyone should divorce, even if they have whatever out provided by Jesus in their favor. I think Jesus would prefer they maintain the vows taken as well. If one party is hurt, that hurt falls under the "worse" half of the "better or worse" promise, so there is no legitimate reason to break the vow. The vow includes the promise to love, which suggests something that isn't some uncontrollable, like a crush or infatuation. One decides to love regardless of situation, rather than one "being in love" as if it is out of one's control.

I say all this to suggest my position on the issue is really as solid as yours seems to be (if not more so). I'm simply speaking of what we can do for those about whom we care deeply when THEY are set on separating.

Stan said...

No, I wouldn't withhold advice. I'd tell them that the separation is sinful. I'd tell him that he's failing to obey Christ and love his wife. I'd tell her that she's failing to submit to the Lord. I'd tell them that no amount of "civil sin" will make it "okay". I'd warn them further that those who are born of God cannot make a practice of sin, and defending sin like that would cause me great concern not only about their current sin, but their eternal condition. I'd bring other believers to bear (as in Matt 18) and, if necessary, the church. I'd do whatever I could to prevent them not only from sinfully divorcing, but to stop the sin that is causing the divorce, and I'd do it not out of principle or "righteous indignation" as some would, but out of a deep and abiding concern for their present and eternal well being. To me, "Well, you'll fractured God's image of the union of His Son and the Church and you'll rupture the unity of marriage and you'll do potentially eternal and likely irreparable damage to yourself, your spouse, and your children, but at least you can do it nicely" just doesn't cut it. To me.

Marshal Art said...

OK. We ARE on the same page, but you're dealing with PRE-separation. I'm speaking from that point at which separation is certain. As to the former, I'm with you all the way.

The legal aspects of marriage and divorce are formalities. The commitment and/or decision to no longer commit are made beforehand. True, as long as the legalities are yet to be finalized, there is always hope. But this is not always the case.

In any case, I thought you were speaking of that point where there is no turning back and how one should speak to the situation. If no resolution is possible, then I would then encourage as amicable a separation as possible so as to prevent compounding the first sin (divorce) with more sin. It seems as if you would turn your back on those you love because of the one sin they are set on committing. Is this the case?

Stan said...

Me? I'd be begging repentance and restoration of the relationship after a divorce. Again, this is all assuming that the split is due to things not allowed in Scripture.

Marshal Art said...

Again, I think we're definitely on the same page.

I know of a couple who split. The dude had really good reason to do so, and those reasons aligned with the type of infraction for which Jesus allowed a divorce. Still, I asked him to consider forgiveness and to remember the vows he took. Indeed, in every occasion where my opinion was sought, I've pushed for reconciliation and, like your last comment suggests, getting back together after a divorce had already taken place.

So now the point is how does one deal with the issue if one or both parties insists no such reconciliation is possible (or plainly ain't gonna happen)? Would you have no counsel regarding how then to proceed?

For example, in such a case, where all my hopes died with their decision to divorce, I would balk at any suggestion by either that they were going to make the other side pay through the nose. Would you have no words in such a situation? It is to this that I spoke and felt you were referring in your post.

Stan said...

You originally thought I would withhold advice for those deciding to split. I corrected that. In the case of those who do the sin of divorce, I would continue to counsel against sin. Don't do it. Reconcile. Further, don't compound it. I objected to your words because it sounded as if you were saying, "Well, if you're going to sin, do it nicely." But, in the end, we're not too far apart.

But my real question isn't about what to counsel, but how. If a wife comes to me (or me wife) and pours out her heart about how mean her husband is and how she has stood it all these years and how God really wants her to be happy and so she thinks she'll leave him, I am obligated to tell her that she is mistaken. How do I do it without "righteous indignation" or judgmental high handedness? How do I do it with genuine concern for her welfare without compromising God's design? What does that look like?

Marshal Art said...

This is what I had to deal with regarding a friend. Though he had good reason, and reason that seemed to lean towards Christ's exception, I mentioned that he is obligated to concern himself primarily with HIS vows, and not hers, as well as to forgive. The woman really was quite the reprobate, never seeming willing to make any changes about her way of living, which included drinking, laziness and at that time, apparently infidelity or behavior inappropriate suggesting infidelity is on the way. There came a final straw and they have since parted. I'm happy to say that he did not necessarily try to bleed her, which would have been the compounding to which I referred, but unfortunately he has since taken up with another woman without the benefit of marriage.