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Friday, January 08, 2021

Waiting for Cooler Heads to Prevail

Well, apparently I made Dan mad by not talking about what he wanted me to talk about. He wanted me to rage about "my president" (that is, the one I didn't vote for in 2016 nor support for the last 4 years nor urge anyone to vote for this last year) and his culpability in the recent "unpleasantness." (In case you're not aware, that's called a "euphemism" and does not begin to express how bad it was.) So, because I care deeply what Dan thinks (snicker), I'm actually making a second post in one day. Fortunately for you all, it's somewhat long, so "TL/DR" might just work for you. We'll see. So, herein, just from the news and my pea brain, is my two cents on the topic. No Scripture. No claim to "God said." Just one man's opinion.

Here's what we know. On Wednesday, January 6, 2021, Congress met to count the Electoral College votes. Down the street, President Donald Trump gave a speech to supporters. Retaining his claim to voter fraud and "stolen election," he told them, "If you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore." And they marched down the street and stormed the Capitol building. Education Secretary Betsy DeVos resigned Thursday (along with a host of others in the Trump administration) citing Trump's rhetoric that brought about "unconscionable" behavior. We all know who the problem is and we all know what we have to do about it. Except I'm not at all sure we're accurate.

UK Home Secretary Priti Patel states categorically, "His comments directly led to the violence, and so far he has failed to condemn that violence and that is completely wrong." Time has written up the story in an article entitled, "Incited by the President, Trump Supporters Violently Storm the Capitol." Clearly they believe the president incited the invasion of the Capitol building. Wikipedia's account of the event includes the BBC and Time stories as proof that "The riots were incited by comments made by Trump at an earlier rally." Yet, from the Time story we read
During the melee, Trump tweeted pleas to the crowd to "stay peaceful," adding "No violence! Remember, WE are the Party of Law & Order." As the confrontations continued, the President tweeted again, posting a video of himself. "You have to go home now," he said, adding, "We don’t want anybody hurt." But he also doubled down on his claims the election was "fraudulent," and told his supporters he loved them.
and the BBC story admits
The president has now said there will be an "orderly transition" to Democrat Joe Biden.
In the "inciting" speech to his supporters Trump said,
I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard.
There is no question that Trump's rhetoric is horrible. We can all agree on that -- well, mostly all. Not the ardent Trump supporters, I suppose. Lots of voices besides Trump had much more inciting rhetoric. Louie Gohmert told us, "You got to go to the streets and be as violent as Antifa." Ted Cruz said, "We will not go quietly into the night. We will defend liberty." Eric Trump threatened to "defeat every single Republican Senator/Congressman who doesn't stand against this fraud." Don Trump Jr warned that if they didn't do anything, "We're coming for you." Rudy Giuliani said, "Let's have trial by combat." Those are all inflammatory and openly violent, as opposed to Trump's final instructions "To peacefully, patriotically make your voides heard."

There is no defense for what happened that day. There is no excuse for the shooting of an unarmed protester or the murder of a US Capitol Police officer. There is no excuse for invading the Capitol or threatening lawmakers. Mike Pence has said, "Peaceful protest is the right of every American but this attack on our Capitol will not be tolerated and those involved will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law." No excuses. I cannot even fathom what they hoped to accomplish. On the other hand, I was long concerned about threats of civil war that I had heard from just before the November election if Trump should lose. I am not defending Trump nor the rioters. All I'm saying is that it is not as clear as you're being told that Trump caused this atrocity. I suspect the Trump Derangement Syndrome is still in full effect. There is a logical fallacy referred to as reductio ad Hitlerium or "playing the Nazi card" where you can shoot down anyone's argument simply by suggesting that they are as bad as Hitler. It looks like Trump is the new logical fallacy. "If Trump was involved, it's his fault."

One might be tempted to ask, "So what? What if it isn't exactly Trump's fault? He was still a major contributor with his rhetoric." Here I see two problems. First, if rhetoric is the crime here, what about all the rhetoric, say, of BLM? There are people demanding riots and violence, people calling on the end of capitalism, of democracy, of liberty, of white people. There are people urging violence against police and against government. Where are the criminal charges for this obviously blatant violent rhetoric? Not coming, is it? Second, and probably more important, if Trump contributed to but was not the real cause of this violent event and we string him up for it, then where's the justice? What about those who are the real causes? What about the leaders? What about those others that specifically called for violence? What about the actual sedition rather than the possibly implied sedition from Trump? If we satiate the nation's demand for blood by removing Trump (less than two weeks before we remove Trump anyway), where is the justice for the rest? For the real problem people?

In my view, we're starting to look like an angry lynch mob. We're not looking at clear thinking and the examination of facts. We're just mad. Let's pull him out of his house and hang him by the closest tree. Surely that isn't a better look for the American way, is it? Unless that's the new look we hope for from the new administration. I don't think that will bode well for a lot of people. But, again, I'm just whistling in the wind, because for Americans today all truth is by media (For instance, all accounts on the media refer to Trump's claims of election fraud as "baseless" when the truth is they are not based in anything they accept and not that they have no basis.) and whatever they say we'll believe without even noticing our disregard of our laws and our rights.

16 comments:

Craig said...

What’s new? Dan’s always angry.

“There will be unrest in the streets, as long as there is unrest in our lives.”

Ayanna Presley

"We ... about to burn this s--- down," "We gotta ... rip Trump right out of that office right there," "We ain't about ... waiting until the next election." “It's time for revolution."

John Sullivan

To be fair, as POTUS, Trump should be held to a higher standard in his rhetoric. That doesn’t mean that those cited above and their like should be held to a low standard or given a pass. I suspect we’ll be seeing more and more quotes from folks on the left advocating much more directly than Trump did for violence. I suspect that the blame Trump crowd will ignore or excuse those statements.

It’s possible to condemn both the actions of yesterday and Trump’s role, and others who’ve done similar or worse things. It’s not hard.

Stan said...

I agree. I am appalled by the invasion of the crowd -- what were they thinking?? -- and dismayed by the president. Pelosi is trying to get the launch codes away from the president and a whole bunch of them seem ready to drag him from the White House here and now, and I find all of that just as appalling.

Craig said...

I guess it'd be ok for a left wing revolutionary darling to invade the White House, drag Trump out and lynch him, or at least to threaten to do so.

Marshal Art said...

I really need to find his entire speech. To date (now a favorite expression I try to use whenever I can), I've not seen anything that qualifies as "incitement" for what transpired in the rhetoric of this president who has been totally jobbed. "We must fight..." is so fantastically common in all manner of "pep talks" (which is what his speech was as his supporters are no doubt dejected at the way they've been dismissed as inconsequential and unworthy of a hearing) and other encouraging speeches, it is no less than a lie to point to his using the expression as what compelled anyone to riot and damage the people's property and threaten those inside. It's the kinda lie Dan loves to tell often and no doubt he'll long refer to this event in this way.

As such, there is absolutely nothing wrong with his having used such an expression. Nothing whatsoever and ANYONE who suggests he's somehow culpable for the actions of such a tiny percentage of the massive crowd in attendance is a lunatic at worst, and seeing with eyes closed at best.

As to that crowd size, it was vast and more than any BLM/Antifa riot, it was indeed a "mostly peaceful" event. If those who did the deed amounted to even .1%, I'd be astonished. I'd wager at least two zeros belong to the left of that 1.

So...anyone got a link to his speech?

Stan said...

I believe I linked to the full text of the "inciting" speech he gave before they marched. I'll give it again here.

David said...

Yes, because the people supporting him and going to his rallies haven't been threatening violent action? "We must fight..." can be a benign phrase, depending on context and audience. Clearly God's audience took it to mean to actually fight, and they'd already been threatening violence, so being told they need to fight is clearly inciting them. Either Trump is an idiot and didn't realize his words would push these aggressive people to action, or he purposefully incited them, either way he is culpable. It's not like anyone is surprised by what happened.

Craig said...

David,

Like in so many situations, Trump should have chosen either silence or moderation. Personally, I think it's more correlation than direct causation, but as I said POTUS is and should be held to a higher standard not a lower standard.

We all know that we'll be seeing massive amounts of examples of much more inflammatory and direct calls for violence and destruction from the leaders of the riots last summer.

David said...

I'm certainly not denying there's a double standard. The media seems to have conveniently forgotten 2016 when the Left had multiple days and places of mass riots over Trump's election. However, it seems like to people like Marshall, Trump can do no wrong.

Marshal Art said...

Given that it seems far more true indeed that you believe Trump can do no right, I feel compelled to defend him against lame attacks, just as I would correct you if you insisted Hitler raped babies and juggled cats. I do support Trump because he's done far more good than those like yourself have seem to lack the integrity to admit. He's done enough good to have qualified and justified his re-election. That's an opinion based on the verifiable evidence. Sue me.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with Trump using expressions like "you must fight for your liberty" or whatever the exact words (Thanks Stan for the link requested. I just noticed it and am eager to read it when time permits.) He is not at all culpable as the suggestion that such expressions actually moved them to violent behavior is irrational. Such expressions as those I've seen attributed to him are used so often that to use them as an excuse to do damage is weak, cheap and worth a severe slap for daring to suggest it. The blame is solely on the perpetrators and if you wish to blame anyone else, blame those who allowed and enabled far worse all year long.

Stan said...

Wait ... you're claiming that Hitler did NOT juggle cats??

David said...

I didn't say it moved them to violence. I said they were already aimed toward violence and his words merely encouraged that aim, and he should have known his audience and used less hostile words.

Marshal Art said...

"Wait ... you're claiming that Hitler did NOT juggle cats??"

Guinea pigs. I don't know why people always make that mistake.

Marshal Art said...

David. Really. There have been many Trump rallies. There has never been any hint they were filled with people on the brink. Your comment is as absurd as any lefty's in projecting such nonsense. This was an aberration. Just this rally, which was massive (I've seen videos with shots of the crowd size), far bigger than the typical BLM marches with a fraction of a percent of them entering the Capitol. Of those, just a few were violent in any way. Most people were just milling about based on videos I've seen. Nothing in Trump's speech could be legitimately highlighted as inciteful. It's nonsense. You need to chill on your Trump-hatred. The bonus to doing that would be realizing I most certainly have not demonstrated I believe he can do no wrong.

Marshal Art said...

Just read the link to Trump's speech at the rally. As I thought. Absolutely nothing there that justifies the charge he incited anyone to riot or break into the Capitol building. NOTHING! It's shameful that anyone would try to make that case when the speech is available for review. What degree of mental contortions are necessary to make the case that he did incite? It's got to be physically painful.

David said...

What action were they supposed to take? The election has been stolen and we need to take it back. The day off the confirmation of the electoral votes, what was he expecting from them? Did he seem like he was just telling them to peacefully stand there and let the confirmation happen, or was he inciting action? Take the vote, stop the steal, fight for democracy. Not exactly peaceful rhetoric on the eve of the end. This speech is clearly meant to incite action, not pacifism. No, he didn't order them to assault the Capitol directly, but what were these angry people supposed to assume from his aggressive words? "Hey, we need to fight to stop them from stealing this vote, by standing here and cheering for me." Really, not inciting action?

Stan said...

David, that is the common belief. The problem is that TRUMP told his fans, "I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard." If that is understood to mean "and kill 'em all," then we have no method of reliable communication and I could be arrested for calling for a peaceful response because "What you MEANT was 'Burn the Capitol'."

Trump's associates made more violent suggestions -- "trial by combat" and the like -- but Trump specified "peacefully" and his fans did not follow that instruction. I don't think Trump was wise in what he said and I don't think Trump is a misunderstood gem of a guy, but I can't assign "inciting insurrection" to him here.