I have talked to people recently who have seen it, who have worked on it, who are so convinced that they're preparing for it. It really is the end of the world as we know it. Or so it goes.
So I ask myself, "What's a guy to do?" Without digging into "Is this just a crazy conspiracy like one side says or is it actually true like the other claims?", I wonder, because of the magnitude of it, what is expected of me if all of it is true? If such a thing is coming, what then?
Well, there are all sorts of possibilities. I know people planning to hide. I know people planning to fight. I don't think I have either of them in me. And since I'm one of those foolish fellows that intends to take my cues from God's Word, what do I find there? I find things like,
Why should the nations say, "Where, now, is their God?" But our God is in the heavens; He does whatever He pleases. (Psa 115:2-3)Different people of God have different callings from God, so maybe some are called to flee and some are called to fight. Maybe I'll be called to flee or fight or something else. But I discard the first response -- abject terror -- and rely on the God who saves. I claim that peace that surpasses all comprehension, whether or not the conspiracy is real, because I serve a living God, and He does as He pleases. That is a great reset in a world terrorized by Covid, politics, wars, and rumors of wars.
God "works all things after the counsel of His will." (Eph 1:11)
For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Rom 8:38-39)
I urge that entreaties and prayers, petitions and thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men, for kings and all who are in authority, so that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity. (1 Tim 2:1-2)
Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. And the peace of God, which surpasses all comprehension, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus. (Php 4:6-7)
27 comments:
All my what? Are people simply incapable of using their brains?
Sin rots the brain.
Is this the part where everyone has to get 666 tattooed on their foreheads?
Joking aside, that's what some are saying. Either the vaccine or a process that will follow. Much of it is premised on end-times prophecy.
I don't think "the mark" is stated as a tattoo, is it? "The mark" can be implemented by microchip. That's how it would be done as the tech already exists to do it.
All things are in God's hands and work according to His will. That doesn't mean we do nothing, roll over, or whatever. YOU might be the person through whom He works His will. YOU might be the person He intended for such a purpose.
Just sayin'.
You're right, Marshal. It was never stated to be a tattoo. I've thought for years the chip would be the way to go.
Except the problem of the "mark" compared to just chipping people is that the mark is a sign of allegiance, not just a useful (if invasive) tool. Only when getting a chip is a choice that requires fealty is it a sign of the end times.
The tattoo part was more joke than anything. And yes, God is in control. He’s still sovereign.
Funny, David, I made that very same point in a conversation recently.
Craig, I caught it as a joke. (Thus the "joking aside.")
I've also never understood why Christians are afraid of the signs of the end. Shouldn't we be rejoicing the imminent return of our Lord? Instead we try to do everything we can to avoid it.
So David, do you mean we're to work toward the end...do all we can to bring it about, which is pretty much furthering evil? As we can't know the hour, who's to say what we think may be signs are truly the signs of End Times?
Speaking of end-times events, I think that off-earth events will be what shakes people, all people, up. Literally.
We have earthquakes once in a great while here in my neck of the woods in Oregon. Haven't had "the big one" yet. But when we do get ones you can feel, it literally shakes you to your core, even leaving a little imbalance, like floating in a boat, long afterward. It reminds you that there is something bigger than yourself, and there is nothing you can do about it.
Now, imagine, instead of (or, along with) feeling the earth move, you see things in the sky; the moon, the sun, the planets, the stars are all doing things never seen before. And I don't mean all those whacky predictions that an asteroid is headed our way and will blast us to smithereens. But physics-bending things.
A great reset? Yeah, that would be interesting. An Abomination of desolation? Might move the needle. A mark? Ummm, that's getting pretty close. But signs in the sky? That, for me, would really get my attention.
It's odd, Marshal. It feels like a sense that "If you don't love Trump, I'm going to disagree with anything you might say." Is there anything at all in what David said that suggested doing anything except "rejoicing in the imminent return of our Lord"? You seem to want to be contentious and I'm concerned about it.
Stan,
I’m not sure everyone else did.
David,
I agree that we should be looking toward Jesus’ return with anticipation, not trying to forestall it. As if we could do anything to stop it.
Art,
I’m not sure where you’re getting that from. As believers who’s primary citizenship is in the Kingdom of God, our focus should be on advancing God’s Kingdom and plans, not on trying to act as if mere politics will bring it about. That doesn’t mean not participating, but it does mean that we unite around the furtherance of God’s agenda, not a specific politician. Maybe it’s time to chill out.
https://www.johnshuck.com/reflections-on-the-technocratic-takeover/
Some words of wisdom on the great reset.
Stan,
"Is there anything at all in what David said that suggested doing anything except "rejoicing in the imminent return of our Lord"?"
"Instead we try to do everything we can to avoid it."
Had David not finished with this sentence, I likely wouldn't have been confused with his comment. I, for one, am looking forward to meeting my Maker. I'm not doing anything to hasten it, because my end is His job. My job is to live as He expects me to live. I'd say that includes doing whatever is within my ability to prevent the suffering of others, not stand by as if I have no responsibility there. Before you suppose to the contrary, I'm not saying you do nothing. My "contention" revolves around the notion that despite saying that God can use bad people or situations to further his ends, you seem more than willing to allow suffering...wagering that because it seems it's never as bad as many may fear, it then follows it won't be as bad this time...while taking comfort in the fact that your conscience is clear because you didn't support someone or something that fell below some threshold in your mind.
Said another way, you seem to be suggesting that if God provides or allows us choices, each of which carries some negative or immoral aspect, it's OK to recuse ourselves from making any choice between them confident that our abstaining absolves us of complicity in the consequences we could have affected.
I'm not looking to be "contentious" for the sake of contention. But I'm willing to risk for the sake of what I think is the better move. To that end, I don't believe that honoring God is always a matter of choosing between the obviously angelic versus the clearly evil. I can explain why my choices are God honoring, even when the choice might seem, on the surface, to be choosing that which doesn't honor God. All one need do is ask, as I've been asking without much in the way of definitive answer. In that, I've not questioned sincerity of belief or intent, but only how it squares with the consequences.
BTW, I don't know that I ever stated "I love Trump", so except where he's the subject of discussion, it's pretty much a coincidence that much of what's been said lately results in my disagreement, while other things seem to raise questions based on what's been said in those discussions.
Craig,
"As believers who’s primary citizenship is in the Kingdom of God, our focus should be on advancing God’s Kingdom and plans, not on trying to act as if mere politics will bring it about."
When the subject is politics, then how we respond to the political is also a means by which believers can advance God's plans. When the wrong choice results in or supports the suffering of people, I'd say we're acting contrary to how we're to work on God's behalf. Supporting a politician is absolutely a part of that for me. That's not to say that any politician is akin to an apostle of Christ. Here's an analogy (Kentucky progressives take note on how it's done):
There are two thieves. One kills to get what he wants. The other simply steals. Which would you prefer? If you chose the latter, does that mean you approve of stealing? Of course not, and to some extent you express this concept in discussions with certain people. Yet, by my vote for the latter, I've reduced suffering that is far worse than merely having one's stuff taken without permission. That's a good thing, and the reduction in human suffering my choice has brought about is honoring to God, even if it falls far short. Now, with less suffering, I can proceed to make choices that lessen it even more.
To chill out seems like a good idea to those who made the poor choice. Not fun being reminded of the poor choice. I find it hard to chill when the obvious was ignored or disregarded. Sue me.
What makes you think Biden's Presidency will harm people? In their view, their aim is to improve everyone's lives, not just the elite. The murder of the unborn hasn't been slowed by Trump. The forcing of the acceptance of LGBT and the like as good and healthy hasn't been impeded. Admittedly, much of my ambivalence toward Trump is from the fact that his time in office hasn't effected my life one bit, nor did Obama's, not will Biden's. I see both of them as mere examples of the direction the people of this country are going, both are leading away from Christ, which is to be expected.
"When the wrong choice results in or supports the suffering of people, I'd say we're acting contrary to how we're to work on God's behalf. Supporting a politician is absolutely a part of that for me."
It seems that you are assuming that you are able to clearly, unambiguously, and accurately identify that "wrong" choice. Yet, that seems to be a level of confidence I can't justify. One problem with your position (similar to Dan), is that it ignores that reality that God sometimes chooses to punish/chasten/correct His people. In this case, you are assuming that God is not choosing to use Biden as a corrective to our country.
On a purely political level, I don't disagree with you. On a Kingdom level, where a sovereign God controls everything, I just can't. While I don't understand what God could do with a Biden presidency, I have absolutely zero problem with the notion that God led enough people to not vote for Trump so that His will would be done. It's possible they those you disagree with were actually working out God's purpose, not you.
David,
"What makes you think Biden's Presidency will harm people?"
The words coming out of his mouth (the scripted ones, not the blubbering of a doddering old fool) and the mouths of those who lead his party. When someone says they're going to do something harmful, it's best to take them at their word.
"In their view, their aim is to improve everyone's lives, not just the elite."
Really? You're going with this angle? Wow.
"The murder of the unborn hasn't been slowed by Trump. The forcing of the acceptance of LGBT and the like as good and healthy hasn't been impeded."
Is that so? How exactly have you measured this and how can you be assured that the manifestation is not merely at it's infancy?
"Admittedly, much of my ambivalence toward Trump is from the fact that his time in office hasn't effected my life one bit, nor did Obama's, not will Biden's."
Sounds rather selfish. What of all those who were out of work and now have jobs (particularly prior to the Covid fiasco)? That alone should mean something. Apparently appearances aren't all that important to you after all.
"I see both of them as mere examples of the direction the people of this country are going, both are leading away from Christ, which is to be expected."
I don't know about you, but I wasn't voting for Pope. I was voting for someone who would work to improve the nation. But pray, tell me how Trump has been leading us from Christ exactly and then tell me where it is his Constitutional duty to lead us at all in a religious sense. Which of our past presidents has been instrumental in leading the nation to God? The Bushes? Clinton? Even Reagan?
"It seems that you are assuming that you are able to clearly, unambiguously, and accurately identify that "wrong" choice."
Pretty sure I've done that. I can elaborate if need be.
"One problem with your position (similar to Dan), is that it ignores that reality that God sometimes chooses to punish/chasten/correct His people. In this case, you are assuming that God is not choosing to use Biden as a corrective to our country."
You guys keep saying this, but have not explained how that's a legitimate rationalization for choosing the greater of two evils. God will do what God will do. We're to do what we're supposed to do with regard to His teachings. That doesn't include standing by and allowing the greater of two evils to succeed.
"While I don't understand what God could do with a Biden presidency, I have absolutely zero problem with the notion that God led enough people to not vote for Trump so that His will would be done. It's possible they those you disagree with were actually working out God's purpose, not you."
First all, it's not about "enough people". It's about you, Stan, David and anyone else with whom I'm having this discussion and why each of us acted as we did. Secondly, none of you seem to feel as strongly that God did NOT lead anyone to this, as if you know with certainty that this is part of God's plan and not the corruption of the Evil One. It's possible that God wanted each of us to do our part to prevent the ascendancy of the greater of two evils and you all let Him down. The mind of God is above our pay grade...to borrow from another greater evil...but it's clear which of the two qualifies as the more or less harmful to have running the country. Those who didn't choose the one of the two that could continue doing good things for the most people chose by default the one who will do the least to improve and the most to destroy...regardless of the degree to which he'll eventually succeed.
Okay, I'm out. If you are going to outright deny Scripture, this discussion is pointless. You simply don't believe in a Sovereign God. You give it lip service, but when it comes to politics, and indirectly human choices, God is hands off, absolutely countering Scripture. Good luck in your war with America-ending-Biden, and not having any hope that God could have meant this for good. To you, He is ONLY capable of accomplishing His Will if we act a specific way.
David,
You're being petulant, but not actually honest nor specific in your attacks against me. Not once have any of you demonstrated that I've rejected God's Sovereignty or Scripture by voting for Trump and suggesting you should have as well. You assume it because I speak in terms of the choices before us and think beyond a superficial extent of what it means to vote for Trump or "anyone but". My hope rests in God always. My hope in God does not mean I choose stupidly without regard to consequences of choosing. I do NOT in any way pretend, suggest, insist or claim that God's ability to accomplish His Will rests on us acting in a specific way. But unlike you guys, I'm also NOT suggesting that His Will is that we disregard the obvious, allowing human suffering that can be mitigated and then pretend my hands are clean and my conscience clear because I did not vote for a guy who you guys thinks talks funny and tweets too much. It's absurd. If anyone's "paying lip service", it's you.
"It's possible that God wanted each of us to do our part to prevent the ascendancy of the greater of two evils and you all let Him down"
That is what I'm talking about when I say you don't believe in Sovereignty. You believe we thwarted God's Will. That Satan is capable of standing in His way. I don't. I believe God is in command always, in all things. You believe we can interfere.
"That is what I'm talking about when I say you don't believe in Sovereignty. You believe we thwarted God's Will."
So you know God's Will as regards the choice for president? You seem to think that there's no effort on the part of Satan to thwart God's Will and pretend that I'm suggesting it's possible for him to do so. That's just wonderful. What an evil thing to say! I'd prefer you just cuss me out.
The problem is you people are stupidly accusing me of suggesting that anyone can interfere with God's Will, when I'm not even talking about such things. I'm talking about God's Will for us to do good, which can sometimes include choosing a lesser of two evils, particularly when that lesser is the only person between worst case scenarios and God's Will because despite what you guys pretend to believe about God using bad times to further His Will, somehow that doesn't include voting for Donald Trump.
You are all speaking out both sides of your mouths to rationalize your TDS-provoked refusal to support his presidency. Doesn't matter how badly people might suffer. YOUR consciences are clear.
Marshal, I have to say I've about reached my limit on this. This conversation has held a lot of elements -- Trump-love, despising those who didn't vote the way you demanded, name-calling, accusation, backlash, on and on -- but what it has lacked completely is anything resembling love for the brethren (John 13:35). Things like "So far as it depends on you, be at peace with all men" (Rom 12:18) and "Do not speak evil against one another, brothers" (James 4:11) aren't really having any effect. There has been no attempt to be "quick to hear, slow to speak, slow to anger" (James 1:19) in this dialog. Now, you are not in the Dan/Feo class, but I think I won't allow any more of this particular topic of conversation That would include any other comments, not just from you, on this. We've beat it to death. We've disregarded civility, gentleness, respect, all that. Time to stop.
Sorry, Craig, I've ended this conversation. But Marshal has taken it up in protest on his blog, so you can answer him there.
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