In The Matrix Reloaded, the Oracle offers Neo a candy. He asks if she already knows what he will choose and she says she does. Neo asks the Oracle, "But if you already know, how can I make a choice?" Welcome to my world. This is perhaps the biggest single objection I hear from Christians and non-Christians alike. If God is omniscient, if God has perfect foreknowledge, if He already knows what choices we will make and we cannot make any other choices (or He'd be wrong), then in what possible sense do we have free will?
Apparently there is a debate that has gone on for over two millenia about the definition of "free will" and whether or not we have it. They can't even agree on what it means. So I'm going to have to lay down my own definition for this discussion. The simplest definition I can find of "free will" is "The ability to make choices that are unconstrained by external circumstances or agencies." Some people will argue that for "free will" to be free, it has to be unconstrained by internal circumstances or agencies as well. This is nonsensical. People always choose according to their strongest desire at the moment. Without internal influence, no choice can be made, or at best it is purely random. And the reason this is important is that one of the fundamental ideas behind "free will" is moral responsibility. If we do not have the capacity to make choices unconstrained by externals, then we cannot be held responsible for our moral choices ... since they don't exist.
Now, Christians seem to believe almost as a whole in the idea that Man has "free will", primarily for the reason I just gave. However, the biblical support for the existence of "free will" is less obvious. I suppose the best proof we can find is in the several places that the Bible says, "Choose." This implies "free will", even if it isn't explicit. But for some reason most of Christendom also believes that God cannot or will not ever under any circumstances violate the freedom of the human will. I don't know the basis of this belief, and I don't believe it myself.
My question here is about the concept that perfect foreknowledge eliminates free will. Why must that be true? Let's take a human example. Mom takes a plate of cookies and a plate of cauliflower to Johnny's room and says, "Which one do you want?" What will Johnny choose? Of course Johnny will choose the cookies. And since you all know that, Johnny has no choice, right? Well, of course not. Johnny made an uncoerced choice, even if it was fully predictable. From Mom's perspective, there was no chance that Johnny would choose anything but the cookies, but from Johnny's perspective he had the choice between two options and chose the cookies. Johnny's choice was free from external constraints; he made it from his own preferences. It was, therefore, "free will" even if it was "foreknown".
So why is it that so many think that if God knows all things perfectly, there is some sort of loss of free will in our choices? Just because He knows what the choice will be (His perspective) doesn't require that there was any coercion or external constraints. The person made the choice without being forced, and that's "free will". God knew what that choice would be and that's "foreknowledge". And the two don't conflict. I don't understand why people think they must.
17 comments:
I heard Paul Washer say, "The only reason we have a choice [to come to Christ] is because there was an eternal choice"
Now I was paraphrasing, but I think what he meant was that God's choosing to elect some manifests in His elect to look as if we came by choice. This is not to say that we are robots and come to Christ kicking and screaming because "we have no choice." In His elect, we come to Him because we cannot resist Him. To His elect, He is more beautiful than anything and anyone this world can offer. So we have free will, but our free will (in His elect) will choose Christ.
;)
Does that make sense? OR am I confused?
I might be confused, but it seemed to make sense. =)
I find this interesting. Because though I disagree with much of Calvinism, I do believe that God knows ALL from beginning to end...He cannot help but know, as He is God. I don't see how this interferes with free will. Like you said I may know what my children will choose in a situation, but that does not mean they did not have the freedom to make that choice. I am their mom, I know them. However, unlike God every now and then they shock me with one of their choices and throw me for a temporary loop.
I have such peace knowing that EVERYTHING that happens in my life is Father filtered. Nothing shocks Him. I never concern myself that He is throwing up His hands in Heaven and crying out, "Whatever will I do? I had no idea that was going to happen!" I am so blessed He is not like me, but rather I am growing to be like Him (have a long way to go).
Now the idea that God has all foreknowledge seems to really bother my father as he cannot see the purpose in prayer if everything is already predestined and known.
I don't understand why it bothers some. I don't pray to change God's mind, I pray that His will shall be accomplished on earth as it is in Heaven. I pray that He will change my mind to align with His will. I pray because I am commanded to have that fellowship with Him and my brethren for a blessing.
How does foreknowledge take away free will? I don't get it. God knows all and I have free will. He first loved me, then I loved Him. It seems simple to me. There is nothing that contradicts.
I've used another example with my girls, one that is more equal and in my opinion leaves one with a greater appreciation:
Place 2 pencils on the table in front of you.
You are going to choose one of those pencils. Does God know which pencil you will choose? No matter your theology, you are sure to say, "of course!"
Ok, choose one.
Now, he knew you would choose that one, right? So the question is, could you have chosen the other? My 4th and 8th grade girls both say, "yes." But they add that if they had chosen the other, He would have known that too.
So this exercise helps them realize that from their perspective there is a choice, while from His there actually isn't. The more "intelligent" we become the greater our difficulty with this notion - but interestingly my girls question it 0, zilch, nada! They are able to accept both His sovereignty and our ability to make choices. Sometimes we need to have the mind of a child:
Mat 18:3 and said, "Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.
Sadly, it is not true that "No matter your theology, you are sure to say, 'of course!'" There is a rising current of a recent theology called "Open Theism" that teaches that God does not know everything. They claim that God only knows that which can be known, and the choices we make cannot be known, so He doesn't actually know those. Worse, it is labeled as "Evangelical Christianity" and championed by well-known folks (like Greg Boyd who contributed some really good things to The Case for Faith and The Case for Christ.
Seems like even the "givens" aren't given anymore. =(
Stan, great post! I know you already know about my theory and I must say you came to similar conclusions. I must ask the question whether or not the answer to your question on my blog was already known or actually questioned? ;)
The most common perspective on "foreknowledge" and "predestination" is the "middle knowledge" perspective. In this perspective, God is essentially along for the ride. He knows all the possible choices and kind of steers along through those choices to keep things ultimately going the way He wants.
I have a problem with that perspective.
Does that answer your question, Chris?
It does though I must say I don't agree with the terminology. I still don't feel he is "along for the ride". I don't know if you read my response to your comments on my site, though. Its an amazing thing to think of a God that knows all possible choices we could make and lets us choose. Its also awesome to know that he is still in control, though, and will not allow us to go against his master plan. Anyway, I still liked your post and feel that it is closer to my theories than you think. :)
Interesting, I have read about Open Theism, but didn't realize that it was commonly accepted among "Evangelicals" (is that getting harder to define - or is it just me?).
My kids go to a Christian school, and we are involved with a local evangelical church that has about 2500 attending weekly. I can say with some confidence that the Open Theism view would not be met with great skepticism there. However, I'm in the rural midwest, which is much slower to acquire what becomes accepted elsewhere - so it could be coming...
As for the "middle knowledge" perspective - I just can't go there. I enjoyed Chris' post and thinking about how that might work, but in the end I can't tip the scales from God to man on the question of His sovereignty v. man's "free will."
Yes, Chris, I read your reply. I think also that there is a large amount of agreement between our views. The difficulty I have is the sense of contingency. God may not be "along for the ride", but He is less active and more "watching", aware of all the possibilities.
I know that it is popular in some circles today to think about time travel and such. I even enjoy it myself. The question and popular answer is "Can I change the future? YES!" I don't believe that to be the case ... from God's perspective. From His perspective, all the choices are made. There are no unknowns, no "contingencies", no "possibilities" ... only what is and what will be. The difficulty, of course, is precisely that I'm speaking of His perspective, because from our perspective there are few limits, mostly unknowns, and a world of contingencies and possibilities.
Excellent post and comments. One thought, if God knows all including the future then our choice has already been made even though we haven't made it yet. How's that for a brain teaser?
Here is what I see. I make dinner for my wife almost every night. When she comes home she goes into the bedroom to study and relax and I come in to her to ask her what she wants to drink with her meal. She likes several different drinks and doesn't choose the same thing every time but I have come to know exactly what she will want depending on the meal and her mood. Nevertheless I ask her and occassionally she surprises me! She'll choose something I didn't expect. I think that is what it boils down to. I believe God made us to surprise him. Otherwise, it boils down to what the author of Dilbert calls "fleshy robots" (and is his personal opinion on free will). I'm not limiting God by saying he doesn't know the future - I'm saying he knows all my possible futures (choices). Sometimes I have hundreds of choices and other times I have few based on scenarios, who I am and what God wants. Sometimes I believe there isn't a choice. Certain things will happen as God sees best.
I believe this whole-heartedly though I'm willing to listen to any evidence to the contrary. Honestly, though, if I come to believe in a God that offers me a choice that isn't real because the outcome is already fixed I may lose my faith. I've never said that before on any other topic but I don't think I could contemplate the ugliness behind such a thought.
"Honestly, though, if I come to believe in a God that offers me a choice that isn't real because the outcome is already fixed I may lose my faith."
That is exactly what this post is about. I cannot imagine what makes it "fixed", except that God is already sure of what you will choose. There is no suggestion that it is "fixed" as in "coerced" or "assigned". Nor is there the least sense in the human that the choice was a given; to us it is a variable. So I'm not sure what you mean by "fixed". If God is already certain of what your choice will be without causing, altering, influencing, or coercing it, is that "fixed"?
You see if "God made us to surprise him", then He is not truly omniscient because He would already know what the choice would be and not be surprised. If, on the other hand, just as your wife surprises you on occasion or Johnny took the cauliflower against all odds, then there is an aspect of God that is less than what the Bible tells us. We can make choices He didn't expect. It is my opinion that, while this makes absolute sense (nay, absolute necessity) in human terms, if we contend that God is surprised, we are making God in our image.
"I believe God made us to surprise him."
This is a problem, I think. We try to humanize God. But He is not human. He is holy. Being holy means being completely separate from us! Completely!
For instance: Rev. 15:4, "For You alone are holy; For all the nations will come and worship before for your righteous acts have been revealed."
"holy" in greek: oèsiov: undefiled by sin, free from wickedness, religiously observing every moral obligation, pure holy, pious.
We cannot be like that!! It takes a work of God to even open our eyes to Himself! If it is He who makes us righteous, if it is He who brings us to Himself, if it is He who gives us faith, is the author of life, the Creator, the Alpha and the Omega, then He cannot be surprised. He is God. He is not like us!
Hi, this is intended for Chris mostly, though any others as well. I can fully understand what you are sharing. Growing up I used to perceive God in the same way, because it made "sense" to me. He was human in ways, only bigger and stronger.
Through the years I have come to believe that God is much bigger than that. He is not limited by our time and space, as He is the One who created them. Because of that very thing, He cannot help but know the beginning to the end.
A pastor that many here probably don't care for, but I personally think very highly of really helped put it in perspective for me. He said it is like the Rose Parade in Pasadena. I am one of the people who is oohing and ahhhing over each float as it goes by. Yet God, He is the guy up in the helicopter. He can see the beginning to the end in one glance. He can see which roads are blocked off and knows exactly where those floats are going. Mind you this is only an earthly example and it does have limitations, but it helped me to understand that God can see my life at the same time He is watching King David's life. That is too big for me to fully comprehend, yet it does not make it untrue.
Being God, He cannot help but know the beginning to the end and every choice I will make. YET, that does not mean He forced me to make those choices. He still gave me free will. He does not live in the here and now as we do, He lives eternally outside of time and space. He knows EVERYTHING, every DETAIL. Yet He stills takes pleasure in us as we abide in Him. He does not violate the free will He gave me, He simply knows me and all the choices I will ever make.
With this understanding of God, it makes verses like Rev 13:9 make perfect sense.
Blessings to you, Julianne
Julianne said, "He does not violate the free will He gave me, He simply knows me and all the choices I will ever make."
Why not?
1 Cor 2:14 says the "natural man does not accept the the things of the Spirit of God because they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised." So if that is the state of the "natural man" then how can we, in our natural state choose God? If faith is a gift, how do we "get it"? (Eph 2:8)
Ezekiel 36: 25-27
"Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols.
"Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
"I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances."
Notice that the tense: God doesn't say, "I'll wait for you to chose" He says, "I WILL PUT MY SPIRIT IN YOU. I WILL CAUSE YOU TO WALK IN MY STATUTES"
God will. That seems to violate my free will if God is going to "cause" me to walk in His statutes!
I write only because I am passionate for the supremacy of God! Glory to Him! Not to ourselves! Putting limitations on God is very dangerous. He can violate our will. He owns our will. He owns us.
Please don't get mad, I'm sorry if I sound like I'm yelling. I'm not.
I will simply say that God revealing Himself to me is not a violation of my free will when He is my Creator and my only Hope (in my opinion). There are plenty of Scriptures that both sides can whip out to support their view. I have watched in over and over for 20+ years and it always ends up grieving me.
My view is not trying to give me credit or glorifying myself.
I do agree that God could violate my free will if it was in His will and still be just as Holy. But I also believe that God can accomplish His will by leaving my free will intact, since He created it. Because He is that big and that awesome. I don't see free will as limiting God, I see it as Him proving He is above and beyond our limits. I see His creation of free will of man, yet accomplishing His will as Lord and Savior as HUGE! How can I take credit when such an awesome God could figure out how to create free will, not have to violate it to reveal Himself and save someone like me? How could I ever think I earned it? How could I ever think I deserve any glory? I can't.
It is grace! It is huge! And free will does not violate grace, nor does grace have to violate free will. God is big enough to work them together for His glory, He is not bound by our understanding or limits! But this is my understanding of Scripture and I could be wrong, as any of us could be. It is my constant prayer that the Lord will correct me in my views for His sake and He often does.
Since this seems to be leading to nothing good...I am out most blog comments for now on as well. I would much prefer to bless somebody with His love extended through me than prove I am right over doctrines that only divide His body.
My only hope is that maybe all people who are either side of this division can realize they don't understand the other side that does not agree with them. Both views believe they are giving all glory and credit to God. Views inbetween or outside of the two views also feel they are standing in awe of God and giving Him all credit.
I love you guys, Julianne
Post a Comment