tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30006406.post6271558082337145828..comments2024-03-28T13:07:51.025-07:00Comments on Winging It: Marriage and the GovernmentStanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04523232247971115247noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30006406.post-41161936491041239342012-09-30T09:19:11.098-07:002012-09-30T09:19:11.098-07:00Just for reference, when I read or speak of "...Just for reference, when I read or speak of "the state" (not referencing "Arizona" or some such), I understand it to mean "government in general". I understand it to mean a (reasonably) sovereign, independent government. The Bill of Rights was written to insure that the States had that sovereign, independent role with mere oversight by the federal government. It's not "civil society", but that segment of society that legislates and mediates civil society.Stanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04523232247971115247noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30006406.post-4697600584102115102012-09-29T16:01:53.153-07:002012-09-29T16:01:53.153-07:00I see it written often :"the state". Th...I see it written often :"the state". That has always been a confusing term for me when it is spoken of as if it has interests and desires. This "person-hood" concept is much more similar to our modern-day notions of government it would appear. When I read those words any more I have to ask myself who is saying it? If it is a liberal I must associate the state with a deity like being. If it is a conservative I must translate "civil society at large". <br /><br />I love your angle of discussing the purpose and role of government. Especially the "government and morality" statement. Even the Deist and atheist seemed to appeal to a higher order (natural law) as "self-evident". I think the founders truly underestimated the depravity of man; that man would eventually reject a higher order and the existence of absolute truth then call it self evident. In such a world the government is all that's left--using the will of the majority--for discerning morality. In the end might makes right. I don't think any of the people who are wishing this brave new world on us all realize what it is they are desiring. Danny Wrighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15006024707303951009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30006406.post-80619018230325242992012-09-29T15:13:21.537-07:002012-09-29T15:13:21.537-07:00Dan,
The whole "philosophy of government&quo...Dan,<br /><br />The whole "philosophy of government" question is huge. The <i>American</i> philosophy of government as laid out by the American Constitution is <i>long</i> gone. The Founders had in mind a strictly limited government with the vast majority of rights and responsibilities handed to the people first and then to the states. We've turned that on its ear decades ago and then built on it until there are sure things like "right to privacy" and "right to marry" that don't even exist in the Constitution.<br /><br />Oddly enough, some of the very things that brought about the American Revolution are commonplace and accepted today. Theirs was a vision of small, limited government. Today government has risen to gargantuan proportions.<br /><br />Interestingly, the Founders had no notion of "government and morality" in the same breath. They understood morality as a function of Natural Law, not government imposition. Morality determined law, not vice versa. The job of government wasn't to make things right, but to defend the rights of the people. (Note the inversion. The latter is exclusion and the former is intrusion.) The original view was that we have God-given rights; now we have government-given rights.<br /><br />Oh, don't get me started.Stanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04523232247971115247noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30006406.post-13807887196833788492012-09-29T15:03:18.657-07:002012-09-29T15:03:18.657-07:00David, you're so cynical! (Of course, "cy...David, you're so cynical! (Of course, "cynical" does not necessarily equate to "wrong". I'm just sayin'.)Stanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04523232247971115247noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30006406.post-32977710516524202732012-09-29T14:17:55.543-07:002012-09-29T14:17:55.543-07:00This illuminates the difference between "the ...This illuminates the difference between "the state" as defined by the constitution and "the state" as defined by liberal philosophy. The constitutional state is an extension of the people. It's very nature is preservation of the civil society... which is all the people.<br /><br />It would appear that the opposing view is of an entity that is wholly separate from, and above, the people. Its responsibilities and purpose include ensuring that all have material blessings, and defining morality as derived from those within the society who are able to amass the power required to dictate it. Part of dictating morality is teaching it to children. <br /><br />I have always maintained that "marriage" has never been the intent of the gay agenda. Indeed their heterosexual counterparts are increasingly dispensing with the notion as a "piece of paper". No, this "agenda" understands that the redefining of marriage from on high (government) removes the existing barriers between the homosexual agenda and the children they need to indoctrinate. Danny Wrighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15006024707303951009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30006406.post-62272150995549253232012-09-29T12:40:35.679-07:002012-09-29T12:40:35.679-07:00The purpose of government supporting gay marriage ...The purpose of government supporting gay marriage is to garner the votes of gay people. Sad, but true. They are the shouting minority, making them sound like an army rather than a squad.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08443810898475961105noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30006406.post-91481252822569186882012-09-29T10:14:36.430-07:002012-09-29T10:14:36.430-07:00I would guess that the State is the authority inst...I would guess that the State is the authority instituted by God as the primary rulers of a society or nation (like in Romans 13). According to the Constitution, <i>our</i> government has six primary purposes: 1) To form a more perfect Union, 2) establish Justice, 3) insure domestic Tranquility, 4) provide for the common defense, 5) promote the general Welfare, and 6) secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity.<br /><br />Mike's question is <i>exactly</i> the point of this post. Of what benefit is it to the State to support an institution called "gay marriage" since it provides <i>none</i> of the values that genuine marriage provides?Stanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04523232247971115247noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30006406.post-33352106224465382702012-09-29T08:31:01.001-07:002012-09-29T08:31:01.001-07:00This raises the question: What interest would the ...This raises the question: What interest would the state have then in supporting gay marriage? How is this beneficial to anyone long term other than the immediate gratification of a few people?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10958013753009875759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30006406.post-59052641720175311412012-09-29T07:56:00.980-07:002012-09-29T07:56:00.980-07:00This raises a of couple question. Who is the stat...This raises a of couple question. Who is the state? And what is their purpose?Danny Wrighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15006024707303951009noreply@blogger.com