tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30006406.post5778428420138409273..comments2024-03-28T12:16:43.334-07:00Comments on Winging It: Why Do People Leave the Faith?Stanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04523232247971115247noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30006406.post-82352468035676923032015-08-12T20:21:50.002-07:002015-08-12T20:21:50.002-07:00And if I gave the impression I was disagreeing wit...And if I gave the impression I was disagreeing with you, I wasn't. I was agreeing with you. Just clarifying (on, apparently, what we already agreed on).Stanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04523232247971115247noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30006406.post-12387579535608708182015-08-12T14:44:49.524-07:002015-08-12T14:44:49.524-07:00If I gave you that impression I'm sorry it sou...If I gave you that impression I'm sorry it sounded that way, I think we are on the same page. It was a quick comment from my phone. I guess see the merits of the "strategies" and "methods" within the context of a healthy, Biblical, disciple making community based in prayer and the presence of God.<br /><br />Good point about the family, I realized after I hit submit that I probably should have reversed the order. Craighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17149415942585847184noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30006406.post-54544441195276122015-08-12T12:19:46.198-07:002015-08-12T12:19:46.198-07:00Well, Craig, if you read carefully, I don't th...Well, Craig, if you read <i>carefully</i>, I don't think I was suggesting that none of those things suggested by others were useless. Or, at least, I didn't mean to. I think there are a <i>lot</i> of good ideas of "things to do". And I have said repeatedly in the past that we are to build disciples, not converts. For parents in particular it is a full-time calling from God. Do it!<br /><br />I just get concerned when we focus on "strategies" and "behaviors" and "methods" rather than using the power of prayer and the presence of God to engender relationships <i>with God</i> rather than with techniques and tools.Stanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04523232247971115247noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30006406.post-74700692594576975392015-08-12T11:52:15.418-07:002015-08-12T11:52:15.418-07:00I completely agree with your premise, that once yo...I completely agree with your premise, that once you are truly saved, that's it, and that a proper understanding of that does not include license to sin.<br /><br />Where I have a problem, is that it is important for Churches and Families to "make' and grow those disciples who are genuine (Great Commission). Craighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17149415942585847184noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30006406.post-67151866985350152122015-08-12T07:51:26.505-07:002015-08-12T07:51:26.505-07:00It seems to go both ways. "I believe that onc...It seems to go both ways. "I believe that once you're born of God, you cannot be unborn." "Oh, so you believe that those who are born of God can sin with impunity." Or "I oppose the idea of 'once saved, always saved' because it leads to the notion of antinomianism." "Oh, so you believe we have to live obedient lives to keep our salvation." Sigh. Which is why I prefer "the perseverance of the saints" ... which will, of course, lead to another strawman ...Stanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04523232247971115247noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30006406.post-79698173990524206152015-08-12T07:41:25.407-07:002015-08-12T07:41:25.407-07:00often times one idea cannot be expressed without a...often times one idea cannot be expressed without and immediate jump to the red herring.<br />for example: when ever someone begins to discuss eternal security, almost immediately the discussion has to be redirected to the issue of obedience. to the degree that subject of internal security becomes subordinated to the redirection. it is as if there is a fear that the subject of eternal security leads directly to anti-nomianism. Post hock ergo proctor hock.<br />some denominations refuse to discuss this very subject for fear that people will go out and start sinning. so instead lets just keep everyone guessing. once save always saved is a valid statement. it may have been abused, but never the less it is a true statement. once saved people will sin. but they are always saved. Stan how many times have you started the discussion of eternal security, only to be redirected to the issues of performance ? <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30006406.post-7571442939312932472015-08-12T06:08:53.336-07:002015-08-12T06:08:53.336-07:00Neil,
Just like you avoid using Jer 29:11 because...Neil,<br /><br />Just like you avoid using Jer 29:11 because people misuse it all the time, I avoid using the phrase "once saved, always saved" because it is thick with antinomianism. I even avoid "eternal security" because both of them suggest, "What I do from here on out just doesn't matter. I can sin all I want!"<br /><br />That being said, I still believe that God has plans for His own for their welfare, their future, and for hope (per Rom 8:28) and I still believe that a person who is truly born of God cannot ever be unborn again. No such thing as an ex-Christian.Stanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04523232247971115247noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30006406.post-22833631816432930482015-08-12T05:34:49.164-07:002015-08-12T05:34:49.164-07:00Great analysis. As I like to say: once really sav...Great analysis. As I like to say: once really saved, always really saved.<br /><br />There is no such thing as an ex-Christian.Neilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01351286913547309232noreply@blogger.com