tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30006406.post3199385091638477074..comments2024-03-28T13:07:51.025-07:00Comments on Winging It: Magnificent GraceStanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04523232247971115247noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30006406.post-72566011226938284902015-10-06T08:18:20.401-07:002015-10-06T08:18:20.401-07:00Oh, "red herring". Good call. Quite sure...Oh, "red herring". Good call. Quite sure that Anonymous is protesting my comment about atheists and "free will" and couldn't care less about what anyone believes about God's Sovereignty or grace. Red herring it is.Stanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04523232247971115247noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30006406.post-16222774370636955512015-10-06T07:32:46.311-07:002015-10-06T07:32:46.311-07:00looks like a typical red herring argument
lets ju...looks like a typical red herring argument <br />lets just forget about the Grace of God toward his creatures, and focus upon the dubious topic of freewill. does Anonymous agree with God's sovereign will with respect to salvation, or does he disagree, and why? but rather than answer the question, he performs a redirection.<br />Bobnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30006406.post-60079835125904115172015-10-05T12:20:58.109-07:002015-10-05T12:20:58.109-07:00Anonymous, David is commenting not about free will...Anonymous, David is commenting not about free will, but about morality. Not "Can animals make choices?" (which, of course, they do), but do animals make choices about morality. My post was not about free will, but about moral choices.Stanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04523232247971115247noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30006406.post-30509689233167168962015-10-05T11:52:00.823-07:002015-10-05T11:52:00.823-07:00Since eating cookies has no basis in the will of w...Since eating cookies has no basis in the will of which we are talking, it is moot. As I understand it, the discussion of free will is about moral choices, not dietary. Animals live on instinct and make their choices based on that. We are able to overcome instinct and make choices based on will. <br /><br />And the suggestion that humans and animals are the same shows there is no base on which to develop opposing ideas. If your standard is x and mine is y, then of course the outcome will be different, but will be reasoned from different angles. Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08443810898475961105noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30006406.post-35376348450851506422015-10-05T09:01:03.602-07:002015-10-05T09:01:03.602-07:00I'm sorry, Anonymous, it's not insecurity....I'm sorry, Anonymous, it's not insecurity. It's boredom. <i>Still</i> no content.Stanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04523232247971115247noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30006406.post-1526122350739714462015-10-05T08:58:12.643-07:002015-10-05T08:58:12.643-07:00"... entirely without content."
#######..."... entirely without content."<br /><br />#################################################################<br /><br />Instead of asking David, "Operationally, how would you recognize an organism's behavior as exhibiting free will or not exhibiting free will?" I led off with a specific example for him to chew on.<br /><br />I had follow-up questions for David, but I can tell you will not publish them, so I won't bother. Your insecurity is telling, Stan.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30006406.post-17869990674424740432015-10-04T20:37:20.899-07:002015-10-04T20:37:20.899-07:00In a post about the magnificence of God's grac...In a post about the magnificence of God's grace you've managed to make it a sarcastic festival. Well done. And entirely without content! A bonus!<br /><br />Mission accomplished. You can go now.Stanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04523232247971115247noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30006406.post-29348562592468740382015-10-04T20:24:28.092-07:002015-10-04T20:24:28.092-07:00I have never taken a class in philosophy, so Stan&...I have never taken a class in philosophy, so Stan's son may assume complete ignorance of that topic on my part. He may be able to educate me here, if Stan doesn't mind the tangent.<br /><br />Here's a hypothetical...<br />A collection of mammals of the same species--I'll call them "Group A"--are selected. One by one individuals from Group A are guided into a room where there is a plate loaded with four chocolate chip cookies. A hidden camera allows us to observe that some individuals eat all the cookies, while other individuals eat only some of the cookies. Yet other individuals sniff at the cookies and walk away without eating any.<br /><br />This experiment is repeated with individuals from another collection of some mammal species--"Group B." The hidden camera allows their behaviour to also be tabulated, and just like with Group A, some eat cookies in various numbers, while others do not take any.<br /><br />I don't show David the video, but I present David with a chart breaking down the cookie statistics for each group, and I ask David to tell me which (A or B) group's individuals are exercising free will, and inform David that one group is composed of humans while the other group is composed of badgers. Would David only be able to give a definitive answer to my question if he can first persuade me to tell him which group is the humans and which is the badgers?<br /><br />Or is David's point that NO species--humans included--exercises free will? I'm not sure where David is going with this.<br /><br />Further, if David claims that badgers lack free will, does that mean their behavior is entirely determined by Satan? Or maybe by God? Or both, in some sort of cosmic tussle?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30006406.post-2184093001265810592015-10-04T12:17:08.899-07:002015-10-04T12:17:08.899-07:00Are you really trying to say that animals have fre...Are you really trying to say that animals have free will? And letting everyone live to a ripe old age without incident is a narrow idea of love.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08443810898475961105noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30006406.post-61349467127589483492015-10-04T10:13:35.111-07:002015-10-04T10:13:35.111-07:00Obviously Stan would not. But yours is an amazing ...Obviously Stan would not. But yours is an amazing short definition of "love", suggesting that "love never allows unpleasant things to happen to a loved one" and, even more, "as I understand it." That doesn't work in a non-religious line of thinking, let alone a Christian one.<br /><br />I note, also, that this isn't a response to the quote listed. Thus, it apparently isn't an attempt at conversation. I'd call it more of a sniping attempt.Stanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04523232247971115247noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30006406.post-18326047743694447142015-10-04T09:59:58.247-07:002015-10-04T09:59:58.247-07:00"I find it fascinating that they're outra..."I find it fascinating that they're outraged that He doesn't eliminate free will in order to save everyone, but they're outraged that He would impinge on their free will to make moral demands."<br /><br />###########################################################################<br /><br />I once heard a Christian broadcaster say, "God loves humans infinitely more than He loves the animals."<br /><br />But there are cases of humans being mauled by the likes of sharks, alligators, and bears.<br /><br />Would Stan make the case that "God loves the free will of all creatures with nervous systems more than He loves the lives of individual humans"?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com