Monday, August 04, 2025

The Wrong Question

We've discussed in the recent past what the proper dress for church is. We didn't agree. Should we dress "appropriately" with a sense of "the holy" and the presence of God, or does God not care and we can do what we want? It is abundantly clear that God did not prescribe the proper clothing for church. Doesn't that mean it falls under the "Christian Liberty" concept where, if it's not in God's Word, we're under our own consciences? Or not? I'm not rehashing that debate. But I'm looking at the principle.

Romans 14 is the "go to" for the doctrine of Christian Liberty. There are other places, but there it's neatly packaged and pretty well rounded. Paul talks about food as an example (like me and my "church clothes" example). He writes, "Who are you to judge the servant of another?" (Rom 14:4). Christian Liberty ... but ... that was only part of Paul's concern. Here's the crux of it. "Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather determine this — not to put an obstacle or a stumbling block in a brother's way" (Rom 14:13). That is, "Yes, we if it's not in the Word, we don't get to judge one another ... so don't trip up your brothers." We never discussed that on the church clothes dialog. We rarely discuss that in the whole discussion about what is or isn't allowed. Paul says we're asking the wrong questions. It's not "What is or isn't allowed?" but "Am I causing my brother to stumble?" In a similar passage, Paul writes, "So, by sinning against the brethren and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against Christ. Therefore, if food causes my brother to stumble, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause my brother to stumble" (1 Cor 8:12-13). That's ... extreme ... which makes the point.

We've gotten used to thinking about us ... ourselves. "Is it okay for me to ... or not?" "What's best for me?" It's human nature. Scripture asks us to "present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship" (Rom 12:2). We are to have the mind of Christ who didn't regard being "self" as God as something to be grabbed onto (Php 2:5-8). We are to be "crucified with Christ" so that "it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me" (Gal 2:20). Maybe, the question of clothes and church is asked in the wrong direction. Does it cause my brother to stumble? For obvious reasons, it's not the normal question ... but it should be.

27 comments:

  1. Another aspect we need to consider is what our conduct says to the world. Yes, we should be concerned about not causing fellow believers to stumble, but we should also be different from the world. It's why "seeker sensitive" church didn't work. If we appear no different than the world to the world, then who's hearts and minds are we reaching. Clothing is one such item, though minor and often not even a thought in our minds, that can speak volumes. You know a Quaker just by looking at them. Do those we work with know our faith simply by looking at us. If we can't even be bothered to give God glory and honor when we gather to worship by such a simple thing as clothing, what does that say to the world about how important God is to us?

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    1. Where is the balance? If it's possible that what we do or wear might cause one believer to stumble, while possibly attracting a non believer to ask questions, what is the correct choice?

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    2. David, My honest opinion of your comment is that you sidestepped Stan’s entire point. Do you have any thoughts about what it might look like to offer deference to others in the matter of “dressing for church” so as to not be a stumbling block? I would be most interested in learning of them.

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    3. Craig, I can't imagine a type of clothing in church that would both cause another believer to stumble and not attract a non believer to ask questions, unless you're thinking of wearing a speedo to church, but then everyone's got questions.

      Lorna, an easy example for dressing for church out of deference to other believers would be revealing clothing on women, something that would entice others in a wrong way. Or perhaps wearing a death metal band t-shirt.

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    4. David, I did mention immodest apparel in my comment; that’s about all I could think of as well (and, sure, Satanic-themed or otherwise distracting clothing). I was wondering beyond the obvious, though, since you seem to fall at the one end of the spectrum Stan mentioned, which would presumably require some big concessions on your part in a spirit of acceptance. (Since I fall roundly in the middle ground, I am not bothered so much by those at either end--and certainly not “offended” in either case.) How do you manage your high standards in this area within the spirit about which Stan wrote?

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    5. Let's start with the obvious, I agree in principle that we should dress for church in ways that demonstrate our honoring of YHWH.

      Having said that, I can think of several examples that could be problematic to others.

      The obvious would be clothes that are revealing or contain inappropriate messaging.

      How about someone who dresses in such a way as to provoke envy?

      How about a church where those who are unable to "dress up" would feel excluded?

      What is the standard? Khakis and a polo? Suit and tie? How much is about the attitude of the heart, and how much about the clothes? Did not Jesus suggest that it is what is inside of a man where the problem lies, not the outside?

      Again, I do agree with you in principle. As someone who is up front regularly, I would submit that those leading should dress to a higher standard and hold myself to this standard. Yet, isn't a pastor in an Armani suit, with fancy/expensive accessories problematic is a different way?

      When I heard the song Dirty Church Clothes, it hit made me re think how this applies.

      "
      Lyrics
      In order to persuade you
      My Levi jacket has seen better days
      Ain't here to get it, just give out the praise
      My jeans are holey and my Bible is torn
      But you know where I'll be come Sunday morn
      I comb my hair with a Saturday grease
      I'm just thankful to have shoes on my feet
      I'm missing buttons on this hand-me-down shirt
      It ain't the style, but I'll make it work
      'Cause it's hallelujah, I ain't strikin' no pose
      Came to wash my soul clean in some dirty church clothes
      It's hallelujah, roll Jordan roll
      Came to wash my soul clean in some dirty church clothes, all right
      Now I'm catchin' looks when they're passin' the plate, uh
      Worse than things they'd never say to my face
      I know they want me in a black suit and tie
      They can dress me how they want on the day that I die."

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    6. Craig, I suspect you and I have very different musical tastes :) but you do seem to have an eye for impactful lyrics; I especially liked the final two stanzas of this one!

      A long time ago, I heard this story (and was able to find it online). Perhaps you know of it.

      Welcome to Our Church
      I once heard a story about a young college student named Bill. Bill had wild hair, spiked with vivid colors, and he wore a nose ring. Bill always wore a T-shirt with holes in it, blue jeans, and no shoes. Bill, a brilliant young man, became a Christian while attending college. He attended a Christian organization on campus, but he also wanted to find a church. Across the street from Bill’s college sat a well-dressed, traditional church.

      One Sunday Bill decided to visit that church. He walked into the sanctuary with his nose ring, no shoes, jeans and a T-shirt, and wild hair. The service had already started, so Bill walked down the aisle looking for a seat. But the church was packed, and he could not find a seat anywhere. By now people were uncomfortable, but no one said anything. Bill got closer to the front of the church. When he realized there were no seats left, he squatted down and sat in the aisle. Although this was perfectly acceptable behavior at his college fellowship group, this had never happened before in this church! The tension in the congregation was palpable. The preacher didn’t know what to do so he stood there in silence.

      About that time an elderly man, one of the old patriarchs of that church, slowly made his way down the aisle toward Bill. The man, in his eighties, had silver-gray hair and always wore a three-piece suit. He was a godly man—elegant, dignified, traditional, and conservative. As he started walking toward this boy, everyone was saying to themselves: You can’t blame him for what he’s going to do. How can you expect a man of his age and of his background to understand some college kid with a nose ring, wild hair, T-shirt and jeans and no shoes, sitting on the church floor? They knew he would banish this kid from the church. The old man walked with a cane, so it took a long time for him to reach the boy. The church was utterly silent except for the clicking of the old man’s cane. All eyes focused on him. Finally the old man reached the boy. He paused a moment, then dropped his cane on the floor. With great difficulty the old man lowered himself and sat down next to the boy. He shook the boy’s hand, said, “Welcome to our church,” and sat with him for the rest of the service.

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  2. Excellent point, that this is another instance where we focus on ourselves not on YHWH or on others.

    Is it possible that a church where everyone dresses up is doing so out of pride? Or that their dress might exclude fellow believers?

    As always, it seems as though it's not as much about what we do as why we do it.

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    1. Craig, you're right. Some can dress to impress at church. Motivation is very much an issue. It's certainly possible to do a "right action" for the wrong reason.

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  3. Stan, you wrote, “Should we dress ‘appropriately’ with a sense of ‘the holy’ and the presence of God, or does God not care and we can do what we want?” Personally, I would not embrace the exact sentiment of either of those positions but have settled somewhere in the middle ground of that spectrum.

    I do see the matter of “how to dress for church” as different from the “eating meat offered to idols” dilemma, however, as the latter concern arose from a desire to eschew idolatry (a clear biblical command), while the former issue is not dictated in scripture, as you point out. I can’t imagine how my choice of attire (other than, say, immodest clothing) could be a stumbling block to anyone nor can I envision how I would go about offering deference to a weaker brother/sister in that area.

    Perhaps you can elaborate on what that would look like.

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    1. Lorna, I know there are people deeply offended by the manner in which people dress in church. I'm not talking about emotionally (although there is that ... but not the point). People have asked me. "I was raised to dress nicely for church because it's God's house and I see people dressing for a beach party. Am I holding God in too high regard by dressing a certain way for church?" Exactly the same question of eating meat.

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    2. I'd suggest, as Stan seems to be doing, that too much focus on the right clothes for church (especially when evaluating others) might be idolatry in itself. I grew up with the "You can't wear a hat in church" crowd, and they expected that to apply every time you were in the building. I'm with Stan on this in that it's more about why you choose to wear what you choose to wear, than what you wear.

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  4. Also, it's not exactly true that God has nothing to say about how people should dress. The Old Testament is full of specifics, though admittedly that's mostly targeted at the priests. But we all know about Paul and his problem with jewelry and braided hair. I know that nobody takes that as an absolute ban, but if we look at the historical context, maybe we can understand why he said what he said. Plus there is always the warning from Moses to Aaron, "Among those that serve Me, I will be regarded as holy." That was after "unusual fire" was used in worship. If God cares about the type of fire used, maybe clothing does matter a little bit?

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    1. David, I'm pretty sure we're not worried about God's prescriptions for dress based on how the priests were required to dress, but I do think that we take the whole issue of how we appear to others way too lightly. Nadab and Abihu died for ... "strange fire." Uzzah was struck dead for touching the ark. Moses had to remove his sandals. There is a LOT of things in Scripture that connect seemingly innocuous externals with deep spiritual truths, and we often ignore them. If God demands, "Among those who are near me I will be sanctified, and before all the people I will be glorified" (Lev 10:3), I think it would be wise to pay heed.

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    2. That was what I was aiming at. We take small things like clothing as meaningless, but God didn't seem to think they were.

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    3. I agree that most, if not all, of the Biblical prescriptions around dress are aimed at the Levitical priesthood, and only applied when they were actually serving in the Temple/Tabernacle. It does seem like those sorts of pre/proscriptions centered around "holy" things or locations.

      As far as the Pauline problem with jewelry, that seems more about taking dressing up to the other extreme.

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  5. I'm not sure how many times I need to say it. Yes, the most important aspect is our heart condition, but our external visage is an expression of what is in our heart. If you're going to church in pajamas, you indicate a low view of God. If you wear Gucci or Armani with the purpose of expressing your wealth, you have a low view of God. If you wear your work clothes with your work logo, you're indicating where you view the importance of God is compared to your work. Yes, cultural norms apply. But our culture has shifted from at least a mild reverence for God with your "Sunday best" because it was something important, to a laissez-faire attitude that believes God loves me just the way I am and He doesn't deserve any special consideration. If you are the type that decides what you wear to church with the thought of God and the church, then I'm not talking about you, but it is my opinion that the vast majority of people don't think all that deeply about it, and I find that to be a sad state for the church. Sometimes I think the modern church is more biblically illiterate than prior to the Reformation when people were literally illiterate. I know one woman at my church that spends half the time looking at stuff in her phone. There is just a general lack of regard for God or other believers in the church today because all that matters is "my relationship" with God.

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    1. David, you are right--you have made those very points many times before (and once again, they would be too difficult for me to address in this comment section, as they would require quite a bit of writing on my part [though I am not adverse to writing when warranted]). Unfortunately, in this case (assuming your last comment was in response to my comment to you above), you did not come anywhere near close to addressing my question--which had to do with any allowances you make for the “weaker brethren” (who clearly you see in profusion). As I understood it, Stan was sharing Paul’s teaching that those of us who are “strong” in the faith (see Rom. 14:14, 15:1) and “have knowledge” (see 1 Cor. 8) about matters that would fall into the “Christian liberty” category would be required to defer in love to those weaker in the faith (i.e. less mature) than us. I was asking (for my own benefit) what you personally--since you hold such strong convictions about standards of dress for church--might do to help remove obstacles for the brethren with other persuasions. (I hope you can see the distinction in this from the matter of how the Lord has led you personally to dress for church.)

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    2. David, I can relate if you find my inquiry difficult to answer; I had trouble making personal application of this particular post, as well, which is why I asked Stan for some elaboration of what it might look like in practical terms (rather than just good intentions). (As I said, I see the “how to dress for church” issue as different from the “eat the meat or not” question, because I can easily skip eating meat in front of my weaker brother/sister, but I can’t not dress for church. Perhaps my current adoption of a “happy medium” in dress standards is actually already the good compromise I am seeking.) Another dilemma I see in this issue is determining who is the “weaker brother” and who is the stronger one with knowledge--since this necessarily requires judging, as I see it. Certainly the theme of this post falls into the category of “very good food for thought” for me!

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    3. I do that by not calling out those people individually. I'm nobody in a position of authority. I know I'm in the minority on a very many views I hold. I don't see it as a salvific topic, so it isn't something I would enforce, but I see it as a general malaise in the church in general. If we don't see God as important enough to treat Him as special on a specific day set aside for worship, what does that say about how we treat Him the rest of the week. I can't imagine how dressing nicer than you do the rest of the week could possibly be a stumbling block to anyone, since a stumbling block leads someone to sin, not that it causes them to consider. Sometimes it seems like we've made "causing to sin" and "causing to question my sanctification" as equally evil things. Just like "fat shaming" as seen as this horrible evil thing you can do, when calling someone to a healthier lifestyle is actually loving. Calling out our lack of reverence in dress is calling us to a higher view of God. Maybe you have an idea how dressing nice for church could possibly lead someone else to sin?

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    4. David, I appreciate the reply. I must say that your first line was a bit startling, as the thought of “calling out” fellow believers joining you in worship strikes me as the opposite of Paul’s teaching in 1 Cor. Chapter 8 (and elsewhere). Have you considered praying for their personal spiritual growth instead? (I had a church friend who would say to me, when I complained about other church members’ spiritual immaturity, “Lorna, you are not their Holy Spirit.”)

      I hadn’t wanted to discuss “how to dress for church” specifically at this post, but I have wondered about this: If you believe that it follows that a high view of God leads to “wearing your best” or “dressing nice” or “dressing up” for church (however you would word it), then have you been led to wear a tuxedo on Sunday mornings? And a woman might choose a ballgown and tiara, perhaps, to show God proper honor? It’s a silly picture, but if you carry your argument out, that’s the logical conclusion, as I see it. You might assert that those aren’t proper “Sunday clothes,” but that determination is based solely on convention (factoring in practicality, cost, etc.). I would guess that the reasons you don’t wear a tux [I assume you do not; if you do, my apologies] are the same ones someone else might give for why they don’t wear a suit and tie. I make this exaggerated point to suggest that standards of “nice” and “proper” are subjective and very open to debate. As we’ve all discussed, we can’t know the hearts of others, but I would assert that we shouldn’t judge them even if we could.

      Your final line would require a bit more thought on my part, I think, since I’m still trying to determine whether Stan’s post was directed at those who “underdress” for church or at those who are offended by those who do--or both! I can imagine that stumbling could occur by both parties, particularly through feelings of inferiority or superiority (as applicable). This was one of my takeaways from Stan’s post; another convicting point for me is where Paul said in 1 Cor. 8:1: “We know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but love edifies.”

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  6. Early in this post, Stan stated specifically that he wasn’t seeking to rehash the “how to dress for church” debate but instead would consider the principle of exercising Christian liberty with the aim of not being a stumbling block in this area; therefore, I have been keeping my focus strictly upon that aspect. I wish that David and Craig had done so as well, since I was hoping to learn of practical ways to carry out Paul’s instructions in this area. Instead, the comments mostly resemble previous discussions and fall outside of Stan’s stated focus for this post (which is why I am not engaging with those comments here). Perhaps Stan will try this again sometime in the future, when hopefully personal application of this specific aspect might come more easily.

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    1. Lorna,

      My intent with my comments was to delve into the liberty aspect, if I went beyond that I apologize. My problem in this specific area is that if we are serious about Christian liberty we have to address the specifics of what is appropriate. If it's truly a matter of individual conscience and intent, how could any of us possibly do anything but accept that their heart attitude is properly informing their choice in dress.

      While I personally, choose a standard of dress closer to what might be David's ideal, I've become much less concerned about what others wear because this is a conversion about liberty.

      I think that the only circumstance where an issue should be raised is if someone is wearing something excessively revealing, obscene, blasphemous, or the like.

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    2. I agree that what we wear is a liberty issue. However, I don't believe that not having a reason for what we wear is a liberty issue. It is my contention that most people aren't even giving any thought to what they are wearing or why. And it is a part of the role of church to encourage each other to greater heights of holiness. We have become so focused on not infringing on someone's liberty that we no longer call each other to a higher level. The clothing issue is a symptom of a deeper problem in the Church, a failure to hold every thought captive and to everything for the glory of God, whether we eat, don't eat, sleep, get up, or whatever. It is hard enough to do that on a daily basis when the vast majority of our day is basically spent on autopilot and simply reacting to whatever is in front of us.

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    4. Craig, thanks for your comment. I think we all agree on the important point of what represents inappropriate clothing choices for church (or perhaps even elsewhere). Once you remove the obvious offenders, that is where things get thorny, I think, as there are various reasons--commendable and not--for dressing one way or another on occasions where we are seen--and judged--by others. As you’ve pointed out, choices can be made with less-than-stellar motivations, and I think it’s equally true that choices made can be misread by others. It’s just too easy to judge in this area and to judge improperly, I believe, so I tend to downplay apparel/appearances in my own mind to keep myself from erring this way. I’m glad to learn that you have settled on that practice as well.

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    5. David, I was glad to read the first line in your comment above, and I think I might understand your position a bit better through this last comment of yours. You are lamenting the unintentional way that many believers live, which you then see displayed in a generally thoughtless approach to relating to God, with the specific example in your mind being the principal weekly church gathering and the seemingly mindless choice of apparel by some there. Is that close? If so, a few follow-up questions to aide my understanding:

      If someone has genuine reasons for dressing as they do and even if their choice differs greatly from your standards, would you respect that (because they gave thought to their choice of clothing for church)--or would you disrespect that (because their standards aren’t high enough, in your view)? Conversely, if someone very intentionally dressed “to the nines” but did so for reasons that didn’t include showing reverence to God, would you respect that (because they gave thought to their choice of clothing for church)--or would you disrespect that (because they didn’t dress to honor God)?

      Since you probably can’t know anyone’s motivation without talking to them about it, perhaps you would need to give the benefit of the doubt to all others (so that you don’t judge improperly)--true? If so, then as I see it, it’s back to being a matter of liberty of conscience, where you do what is right in your mind, and others do that as well, and the judging of the hearts is left to God. To my mind, that keeps the stumbling blocks nicely out of the way.

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We're always happy to have a friendly discussion with you readers. "Friendly" is the key word here. If it gets too heated or abusive, I'll have to block the comment. Let's keep it friendly, okay?